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Author Topic: man, it's hot outside. it's like there is something with the weather...
possenier
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 - posted 06-02-2017 05:14 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
...a politics topic.
it seems like today makes the first day where it's the USA vs The rest of the world.
how is the feeling in the US?
he already did some stupid things, but this one trumps everything (yes, pun intended)

good points for greenpeace in germany for using digital graffiti, they used a projector in a hotel room with a tele lens to project "#Total Loser, so sad!" on the american embassy.

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DixieBMX
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 - posted 06-02-2017 08:49 AM      Profile for DixieBMX   Email DixieBMX         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Feels shitty, but hey...Ivanka tried! I mean, I think she tried.

Just kidding. She's horrible just like her father.

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fitfosterchild
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 - posted 06-02-2017 08:56 AM      Profile for fitfosterchild   Email fitfosterchild         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If their goal is to piss off opposition to the point of exhaustion, they're doing a decent job.

Pulling out of the Paris agreement is one of the more foolish things this asshole has done. And that's saying something.

He keeps saying shit about negotiating a better deal. Mother fucker, we got to set our own goals!

Also, clean coal?!

[ 06-02-2017, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: fitfosterchild ]

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DixieBMX
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 - posted 06-02-2017 09:31 AM      Profile for DixieBMX   Email DixieBMX         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FUCK YO COAL MINE.

These people think WIND is a finite resource and that solar doesn't work because what about when it gets cloudy or when it's night time?

There is no underlying guiding principle for these assholes other than to incite outrage on the left. That is how they mark something as "good policy" or a "win"..."did it make liberals mad? GREAT!"

Fox News, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh...they've eroded any sense of middle ground in the eyes of their constituency. There is no path other than opposition. In their minds, Obama was an illegitimate secret African/Muslim president (setting aside the argument that being a Muslim doesn't disqualify you from being president) who "got away with it" for 8 years, so they are accepting of Trump/Pence/Ryan's lies because they think it's their turn.

It's fucking lunacy.

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possenier
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 - posted 06-02-2017 10:08 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
2 things,
at this very moment people are installing solar panels on my roof, so great timing.

and as for business, europe is already setting up a tax on material coming from country's who don't follow the paris guideline, and both china and russia are going to follow with it, so instead of company's in the usa earning more, they will earn a lot less.
i mean, shell was even for the paris accord.

but yeah, it's not my problem.

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Serb
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 - posted 06-02-2017 01:25 PM      Profile for Serb           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Earlier stack sessions at the trails now.

Covfefe'd

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kineticbmx
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 - posted 06-04-2017 07:47 PM      Profile for kineticbmx   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fitfosterchild:
Also, clean coal?!

Australian govt is also pushing this "clean coal" shit down their citizens throats too. It people there see straight through it.

Its all about short term economic boost over any environmental issues. The way they see it, is that an outside (international) company comes in at "next to no cost" for the government, sucks the shit out of the ground, pumps the local economies full of cash (total bullshit) and leaves to move onto the next town.

what happens when a coal mine runs out? so does the population of the town chasing another mining job. They don't magically stay because they love the place and settle down. No, they chase the big $ mining jobs they've become accustomed to.

So, the govt gets money from the land rights, and a cut of selling it overseas to china, and they get money from these pop-up towns that act as little tax injection points from their huge populations of guys earning $100-200k + per year and blowing all their salaries on useless shit. They need all that because they all know the corporations are tax-dodging in every possible way.

Its really the worst cycle. The only cleanliness that comes from coal is for those at the pointy end of the spear getting all the kickbacks from it. Everyone else gets fucked.

[ 06-04-2017, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: kineticbmx ]

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kineticbmx
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double post

[ 06-04-2017, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: kineticbmx ]

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possenier
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 - posted 06-05-2017 03:03 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
coal is now cheap for 2 reasons.
gouvernement are giving big tax brakes to save the jobs
some country's need more than they can produce (china and in some parts, the usa)

the problem is, both those things are very short time things. China is investing a lot in clean energy, and those tax brakes are not sustainable.
So the moment both those things reach the point that they are just as expensive as the alternative energy, the whole coal thing will implode in no time.

We saw that in my country 25 years ago, the same in the UK with Thatcher and you see it all over the world.

also good point for elon musk with the quote:" you quite Paris, so i quit you!"

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FEDERAL 4130
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 - posted 06-05-2017 01:46 PM      Profile for FEDERAL 4130           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
🙂

[ 06-05-2017, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: FEDERAL 4130 ]

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kineticbmx
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 - posted 06-05-2017 10:09 PM      Profile for kineticbmx   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:

the problem is, both those things are very short time things. China is investing a lot in clean energy, and those tax brakes are not sustainable.
So the moment both those things reach the point that they are just as expensive as the alternative energy, the whole coal thing will implode in no time.

Alternative energy adds up to be marginally cheaper than burning fossil fuels over a long period, due to the lesser amount of maintenance, transport and personnel costs. A wind tower runs 24hrs a day, unmanned. Sure you need more of them across a wide area to compare to a coal burning plant, but it all adds up. The tax breaks shouldnt stop much, its the readiness and availibility of the equipment that seems to be the real problem.

And oh, the fact that they can't sell wind to another nation.

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-06-2017 02:16 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
this thread is sex junk

Bill Nye says climate change is driving terrorism because water shortages are causing disaffected youth to flock to cities.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-nye-climate-change-paris-terrorism_565ccdebe4b079b2818b810b?
November/30/2015

.

The European Migrant Crisis Is A Nightmare. The Climate Crisis Will Make It Worse.
Hundreds of thousands of migrants are seeking refuge in Europe, but millions more will be displaced as the climate warms.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/migrant-crisis-climate-change_55e9ed2de4b03784e275d514
september/05/2015

.

How Many Climate Change Refugees Should America Let In?
http://ecowatch.com/2015/11/27/climate-change-refugees-syria/
November 27, 2015

.

Prince Charles: Syria's War Linked To Climate Change
http://news.sky.com/story/charles-syrias-war-linked-to-climate-change-10338610
23 November 2015

.

Obama: Climate summit 'powerful rebuke' to terrorists...
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/261193-obama-climate-conference-is-powerful-rebuke-to-terrorists

Muslim world laughs at Obama’s speech – Video
November 16, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXodRLLkth4
quote:
In this video, purportedly from Egypt, the announcers laugh, saying “I’m sure he’s not deliberately trying to destroy his own country.”

I don’t know the language, so I don’t know if the words appearing on the screen are in fact what is being said. If they are – and that’s a big “if” – America is in bigger trouble that we realize.

The announcers are apparently laughing at Obama’s warning to US Coast Guard graduates that climate change represents an immediate threat to our national security.

It gets worse.

“This is a man who ignores the evidence of his own eyes,” they say. “He is too afraid. He doesn’t want to admit the truth.”

“He thinks … if he is just nice to Muslims then ISIS will stop trying to kill them and give them a big hug.

Secretary of State John Kerry warns U.S. ambassadors that they will be dealing with “climate refugees” in the not-too-distant future.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/john-kerry-tells-ambassadors-there-will-be-global-warming-refugees-in-not-too-distant-future/
March 29th, 2015

.

A team of researchers in 2009 came to an alarming conclusion that almost 400,000 more people would die as a result of armed conflict in Africa by 2030 if global warming continues.
http://www.pnas.org/content/106/49/20670.full.pdf

Environmental shifts were already causing wars, argued a team of experts in Nature published in 2011. The authors explained that events like droughts put strain on food and water resources, which can cause conflict. Natural disasters can also cause disease, famine, and economic distress, which may create tensions between factions.

In 2013, Stanford researchers Sol Hsiang and Marshall Burke conducted a Meta analysis of 50 studies on conflict and climate change and found that higher temperatures and extreme precipitation tend to correlate with greater incidence of conflict.
http://www.theguardian.com/vital-signs/2015/mar/09/climate-change-conflict-syria-global-warming

In 2011, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon had warned that climate change posed as much of a danger to the world as war and therefore urged the US – the world’s biggest producer of greenhouse gases – to take the lead in fighting global warming.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6410305.stm

.

First It Was The Refugee Crisis, Now They're Blaming The Shitty Economy On Global Warming...
A warming planet could wreck the economy
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/a-warming-planet-can-wreck-your-finances-193844612.html
November 30, 2015
There’s broad agreement that climate change can cause stormier weather, rising sea levels and more flooding in coastal areas. But economists are beginning to think a warming planet can also cause job losses, recessions and even a tumbling stock market...

.

Obama’s climate negotiator: China’s CO2 output can keep rising because their economy needs to grow
http://canadafreepress.com/article/77049
November 25, 2015

.

The world has “500 days to avoid climate chaos,” French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said alongside Secretary of State John Kerry at the State Department
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/french-foreign-minister-we-have-500-days-avoid-climate-chaos
May 13, 2014
Fabius was referring to the next big United Nations climate conference, scheduled to open in Paris, France in November 2015

.

Maurice Newman ( chairman of the Prime Minister's Business Advisory Council ) says the UN is using climate change to end democracy
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/08/australia-pms-adviser-climate-change-is-un-hoax-to-create-new-world-order
“The real agenda is concentrated political authority,” Newman wrote in an opinion piece published in the Australian newspaper. “Global warming is the hook. It’s about a new world order under the control of the UN..
8 May 2015

^ the pope agrees
Pope Calls For “New Global Political Authority” To Deal With Climate Change
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/15/pope-francis-destruction-ecosystem-leaked-encyclical
16 June 2015
Francis also called for a new global political authority tasked with “tackling … the reduction of pollution and the development of poor countries and regions”. His appeal echoed that of his predecessor, pope Benedict XVI, who in a 2009 encyclical proposed a kind of super-UN to deal with the world’s economic problems and injustices.

.

How Racial Justice is Integral to Confronting Climate Crisis - Why the Climate Movement Must Stand with Ferguson
https://350.org/how-racial-justice-is-integral-to-confronting-climate-crisis/
August 20, 2014

Environmentalist: Ferguson Happened Because of Climate Change
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/388206/environmentalist-ferguson-happened-because-climate-change-katherine-timpf
September 17, 2014

.

Al Gore at SXSW: We Need to 'Punish Climate-Change Deniers' and 'Put a Price on Carbon'
https://www.ecowatch.com/al-gore-at-sxsw-we-need-to-punish-climate-change-deniers-and-put-a-pri-1882022405.html
16 March 2015

.

.

.

...TRUMP/AMERICA JUST KILLED US ALL AND LITERALLY DESTROYED THE PLANET!!! BE AFRAID, ACCEPT ALL MIGRANTS, AND PAY US OUR CARBON TAXES!

"Our deliberate destabilization campaigns and economic policies aren't responsible for any this, it's your fault for being too comfortable!"

right?

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possenier
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 - posted 06-06-2017 02:23 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
alaskan,
you posted a lot of links, but you forgot to say what you think.

1) do you believe in climate change, or is it a invention of the chinees?

2) do you think the paris accord is to bad for americans? (knowing, that the CO² that needs to be reduced per person is less than some other country's)

3) does the usa needs to keep coal mines open?

a simple yes or no will do. thanks, pieter

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-06-2017 02:39 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:

1) yes, but the paris accord and all that surrounds it has less to do with fixing the problem than it does with pushing the global government scheme

2) yes. more fines/restrictions and being forced to pay/obey the eu/un would probably turn out bad for many of us, considering all the other nice-sounding pat-yourself-on-the-back shit that hasn't worked out as promised

3) yes, at least until the alternative infrastructure is already in place/proven. is that happening any time soon? do you see any us/euro car companies developing new steam/air powered vehicles? we should just shut everything down and raise the prices of EVERYTHING in the meantime? I'm pretty sure when joe biden and others talked about leveling the playing field, they meant lowering the us to 3rd world standards, not raising the 3rd world to ours...

coal mining is a shitty dirty job, but taking away that income and then raising prices is going to cause a lot more immediate/volatile problems


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possenier
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 - posted 06-06-2017 11:23 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
See, some good arguments, and i agree with them to some level.

the reason i see closing down the mines now is because how i saw it evolve in my country and in the UK. it's bad for the people, and man like trumps keep the miners believing there is a future for them when there isn't.
so if they stop them now, and invest the money in "upgrading" tose miners so they get another/better job, then that is better than having to do it in 5 years.

and of course there is a lot of bullshit in the paris accord, but that's just how politics work. but no matter how they do it, lowering the CO in the air is good for the people.

as to waiting for alternative's for coal, i am still pro nuclear power, even with all it's bad stuff, it's still the best clean source of energy we have.

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DixieBMX
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 - posted 06-06-2017 09:02 PM      Profile for DixieBMX   Email DixieBMX         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Non-binding agreements are often the harbinger of global government.
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alaskan
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 - posted 06-07-2017 01:29 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DixieBMX:
Non-binding

my dick

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Union, 31 May 2017;
https://twitter.com/HallieJackson/status/869982487757377540
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/ec-president-juncker-mocks-trump-for-lack-of-climate-deal-understanding-957196355828
quote:
The Americans can’t just leave the Climate Protection Agreement,” Juncker said at an event in Berlin, Germany Wednesday. “Mr. Trump believes that because he doesn’t get close enough to the dossiers to fully understand them.

It would take three to four years after the agreement came into force in November 2016 to leave the agreement,” Juncker said. “So this notion, ‘I am Trump, I am American, America First and I’m going to get out of it’ – that won’t happen.

We tried to explain that to Mr. Trump in Taormina in clear German sentences,” Juncker said to laughter. “It seems our attempt failed, but the law is the law, and it must be obeyed...

you know for a fact they're going to be shoving the measures down our throats whether it's "non-binding" or not, and have been OPENLY calling for a literal global government for years, especially for climate stuff. it's not fake or a theory, it's literally what they're flat-out saying we need to do to save the planet...
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possenier
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 - posted 06-07-2017 02:01 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
the non binding part is not about the fact that you can get out. you can't get out when you sign it.

the non binding fact is that there is no "punishment" for country's that don't meet what they agreed to meet.

So the simple thing for trump would have been to say, sure, we stay in paris, and then completely ignore it for the next 4 years.

and for real, you can't really be mad at juncker for making fun of Trump. I think even you will agree that he is an idiot.

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-07-2017 02:15 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
the non binding fact is that there is no "punishment" for country's that don't meet what they agreed to meet.

pretty sure the 'global climate court' / media / sjw zombies would disagree and throw a tantrum, especially if we'd already been entrenched in it for 3+ years.

if there's no "punishment," then what do you call the ongoing attempts at backlash/shaming/shunning?

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DixieBMX
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 - posted 06-07-2017 06:22 AM      Profile for DixieBMX   Email DixieBMX         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
the non binding fact is that there is no "punishment" for country's that don't meet what they agreed to meet.

pretty sure the 'global climate court' / media / sjw zombies would disagree and throw a tantrum, especially if we'd already been entrenched in it for 3+ years.

if there's no "punishment," then what do you call the ongoing attempts at backlash/shaming/shunning?

Shaming? Are you serious? Take it easy there, snowflake.
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possenier
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 - posted 06-07-2017 09:00 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
the non binding fact is that there is no "punishment" for country's that don't meet what they agreed to meet.

pretty sure the 'global climate court' / media / sjw zombies would disagree and throw a tantrum, especially if we'd already been entrenched in it for 3+ years.

if there's no "punishment," then what do you call the ongoing attempts at backlash/shaming/shunning?

i think they are mainly mad about why he does it. and the statement that sais to the rest of the world.
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fabolous
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 - posted 06-07-2017 01:06 PM      Profile for fabolous   Author's Homepage   Email fabolous         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DixieBMX:
FUCK YO COAL MINE.

These people think WIND is a finite resource and that solar doesn't work because what about when it gets cloudy or when it's night time?

There is no underlying guiding principle for these assholes other than to incite outrage on the left. That is how they mark something as "good policy" or a "win"..."did it make liberals mad? GREAT!"

Fox News, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh...they've eroded any sense of middle ground in the eyes of their constituency. There is no path other than opposition. In their minds, Obama was an illegitimate secret African/Muslim president (setting aside the argument that being a Muslim doesn't disqualify you from being president) who "got away with it" for 8 years, so they are accepting of Trump/Pence/Ryan's lies because they think it's their turn.

It's fucking lunacy.

I agree with everything you said, however, as much as fox news/alex jones/Limbaugh/other assholes are eroding a middle ground, the liberal based media outlets are basically doing the same thing.
Tolerance is non-existent from either side, which is silly. you can disagree with someone and still maintain civility and respect.

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kineticbmx
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 - posted 06-08-2017 09:50 PM      Profile for kineticbmx   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:
you know for a fact they're going to be shoving the measures down our throats whether it's "non-binding" or not, and have been OPENLY calling for a literal global government for years, especially for climate stuff. it's not fake or a theory, it's literally what they're flat-out saying we need to do to save the planet...

Hahaha wow

If you really think some "global government" would make its way in, you're kidding yourself

The "punishment" for not fulfilling the paris agreement would have been basic trade tax increases or sanctions. But the US wants to reel back trade with the EU and asia anyway, so they're out of it scot free.

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fbmuthafker
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odd8Zdhuj9o#t=1m44s

i asked myself if "moderate" or "centrist" extreme-ism was such a thing

[ 06-09-2017, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: fbmuthafker ]

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Vlad
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The idea that climate change is linked to the Syrian war, and is pushing kids to join extremist groups, is utter bullshit.
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outsiderbmx
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quote:
Originally posted by fbmuthafker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odd8Zdhuj9o#t=1m44s

i asked myself if "moderate" or "centrist" extreme-ism was such a thing

I searched it. Unrelated, but "moon-eyed horse" would be a rad band name.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43018531?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

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alaskan
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad:
The idea that climate change is linked to the Syrian war, and is pushing kids to join extremist groups, is utter bullshit.

you just hate the planet. nazi!
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kineticbmx
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad:
The idea that climate change is linked to the Syrian war, and is pushing kids to join extremist groups, is utter bullshit.

Fucking A, literally clutching at straws

people are radicalized because their houses are bombed, and family members killed in war, and they HAVE to choose a side. Because being neutral is being dead. And usually the most influential side, is that of the nutcases, because you know, they're kind of NOT a government with an army.

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Vlad
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Yep. However, there is a problem in the ME with mosques preaching some seriously fucked up shit, mostly in impoverished neighborhoods in the cities and out in the countryside.

Local leadership is to blame, as is the west for looking the other way.

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alaskan
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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad:
there is a problem with mosques preaching some seriously fucked up shit

*Amish bombing in Jerusalem*

give us more Amish

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alaskan
rider
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 - posted 06-14-2017 04:16 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Union, 31 May 2017;
https://twitter.com/HallieJackson/status/869982487757377540
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/ec-president-juncker-mocks-trump -for-lack-of-climate-deal-understanding-957196355828
quote:
The Americans can’t just leave the Climate Protection Agreement,” Juncker said at an event in Berlin, Germany Wednesday. “Mr. Trump believes that because he doesn’t get close enough to the dossiers to fully understand them.

It would take three to four years after the agreement came into force in November 2016 to leave the agreement,” Juncker said. “So this notion, ‘I am Trump, I am American, America First and I’m going to get out of it’ – that won’t happen.

We tried to explain that to Mr. Trump in Taormina in clear German sentences,” Juncker said to laughter. “It seems our attempt failed, but the law is the law, and it must be obeyed...

you know for a fact they're going to be shoving the measures down our throats whether it's "non-binding" or not, and have been OPENLY calling for a literal global government for years, especially for climate stuff. it's not fake or a theory, it's literally what they're flat-out saying we need to do to save the planet...
EU chief says 3 states will be sanctioned over refugees
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/eu-chief-states-sanctioned-refugees-48025035
Jun 14, 2017
quote:
BRUSSELS —

A top European Union official says that legal action will be launched Wednesday against the Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland for failing to honor their pledges to accommodate refugees.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said that "for more than a year now they have not been taking any refugees at all," under a two-year [program to share 160,000 refugees.

Juncker said: "That gives us no choice other than to initiate infringement proceedings against these countries today."

The relocation scheme is a major plank of the EU's migration policy, and was lauded as a pan-European show of solidarity in 2015

...

"It's a question here of observing European law, it's not a question of sanctions," Juncker told EU lawmakers in Strasbourg, France.

yeah, definitely sounds like something i should be ashamed of for not wanting anything to do with...
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possenier
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 - posted 06-14-2017 02:31 PM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
what have the 2 things to do with each other?
1 is about a law between all the country's in the world, about global warming (what this topic is about)

the other is about a law voted by all european country's about how we will deal this crisis for people from syria. some country's like germany are taking in way more people than other country's. those 3 country's take non. and i'm glad they are going to punish them. if it was up to me, they would not receive a single euro anymore.

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-14-2017 03:49 PM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
what have the 2 things to do with each other?
1 is about a law between all the country's in the world, about global warming (what this topic is about)

the other is about a law voted by all european country's about how we will deal this crisis for people from syria.

quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
alaskan,
you posted a lot of links

. . .

do you honestly believe that the 2015 PARIS AGREEMENTS had absolutely nothing to do with any emerging refuge/immigration issues?
Syria is only one country. how many others are included/"affected by the climate crisis?" (assuming the climate crisis is what has lead to war refugees, as many world leaders claim, as I posted above)

all those links i posted, and many more if you want, show many 'world leaders' saying that climate change[causing violence] is going to increase immigration incrementally, and those same exact leaders call for sanctions against anti-mass-immigration policymakers, and you act like it's unfathomable that the climate change stuff will have any impact on immigration policy/terror attacks...

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Vlad
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 - posted 06-14-2017 05:27 PM      Profile for Vlad   Email Vlad         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dude, it doesn't matter what links you post. What part of "the war in Syria was not caused by climate change" do you not understand?
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alaskan
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 - posted 06-14-2017 07:30 PM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i know, that's my whole point - the biggest people pushing the climate stuff are the ones saying that, and i've been posting for years about them causing the syria/libya wars

jesus fuck

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possenier
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 - posted 06-15-2017 02:03 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The paris thing is something that is the result of like 20 years of work.
so WAY before there where problems in syria.
almost all people have already fled there, so the whole syria thing has NOTHING to do with paris.
ok?

point 2 will global warming cause people to migrate?
yeah offcourse it will.
For the same reason people in miami beach will start to migrate to higher places in miami when there is suddenly 2ft of water in there kitchen.

But are we doing something against global warming because of people migrating? or are we doing something against global warming because not doing anything against it is bad for everyone and everything?
For me it's pretty clear that it's the later.
Your arguement doenst make sens because it's not because B follows A that this also means that B is the reason A happens.

i'll explain, if it's going to get hotter then more people are going to buy more AC unit's.
That doesn't mean that global warming is a invention from the AC unit company's.

It's the same reason that's fault with blaming video games for school shootings, or smoking pot is the stepping stone for doing cocaine.
it just doesn't work that way. everyone who does cocaine started with drinking milk when they where born. so lets ban milk and we will solve cocaine?

So global warming is a problem, and migration is a problem. but it's not because there could be a link, that the reason people are doing something about global warming is just to solve migration. even without global warming there would still be just as much migration problems.

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-15-2017 04:06 AM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
i'll explain, if it's going to get hotter then more people are going to buy more AC unit's.
That doesn't mean that global warming is a invention from the AC unit company's...

your response totally addressed the issues of carbon taxes and who they're actually paid to, what they actually fund, actual consequences/stated intentions, etc...

[ 06-15-2017, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: alaskan ]

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possenier
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 - posted 06-15-2017 07:24 AM      Profile for possenier   Author's Homepage   Email possenier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I give up.
You can show a horse water,
But you can't force it to drink.

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fabolous
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 - posted 06-15-2017 11:00 AM      Profile for fabolous   Author's Homepage   Email fabolous         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
America doesn't need to sign an accord to be a conscientious country when it comes to environmentalism. I don't know enough about the Paris Accords to speak to them, however, when I see that big oil exec's are making a fuss over us backing out, it makes me feel pretty ok with it.
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alaskan
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 - posted 06-15-2017 12:29 PM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
I give up.
You can show a horse kool-aid,
But you can't force it to drink.

eat the pie . . .

quote:
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" (also sometimes appearing as "'Don't Drink the Kool-Aid'") is an idiom commonly used in the United States that refers to any person or group who knowingly goes along with a doomed or dangerous idea because of peer pressure. The phrase often carries a negative connotation when applied to an individual or group. It can also be used ironically or humorously to refer to accepting an idea or changing a preference due to popularity, peer pressure, or persuasion.

The phrase derives from the November 1978 Jonestown deaths, in which over 900 members of the Peoples Temple, who were followers of Jim Jones, died

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown

Enjoy your literal death cult/self-immolation and all its effects on freedom/peace...

[ 06-16-2017, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: alaskan ]

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Vlad
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 - posted 06-17-2017 01:31 PM      Profile for Vlad   Email Vlad         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not one refugee I've talked to from any side of the Syrian war talks about climate change. Unless, of course, climate change is code for Bashar al-Assad.
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black_labb
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 - posted 06-18-2017 01:49 AM      Profile for black_labb   Author's Homepage   Email black_labb         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In my opinion climate change debates (along with a lot of political topics) are too polarised to achieve anything productive. I don't think all coal fire power stations should be shut down in the next 10 years but I think there should be investments put into other technologies instead of fighting to keep coal relevant in the future. At the current rate there is around 300 years worth of coal available but there is no reason we need to use it all, especially when much of it is brown coal that burns with quite a few impurities.

Ignoring the climate change debate there are good reasons to look into increasing power generation from alternative or renewable energy. There is only so much land available in the world and coal mines are pretty devastating to the areas. I work in mechanical engineering dealing mostly with industrial gearboxes and other mechanical items. I've spent enough time on coal mines to see what they are like. There are some parts of coal mines that have been shut for 50 years and the regeneration to the area still hasn't shown anything more than sparse shrubs. With the amount of material displaced and topsoil lost there just isn't anything that will grow even with the more modern mines.

Farming land is going to be one of the most important things in the future and you can't farm a minesite or eat coal.

Personally I think there should be increases in decentralised power generation. Solar panels, wind turbines, small scale natural gas generators that use the waste heat for hot water or house heating etc. Keep coal doing it's thing by making up for the additional demand and cycles of the other systems but don't try and pretend it is the be all and end all. Just like all technologies there will be a time that it becomes obsolete.

Jobs? There will be jobs for people but it might mean people have to move to a different area. It's not the end of the world it just means a bit of restructuring. It only really causes long term issue for the investors and people with a lot at stake. I'd be more worried about being in a country/region that doesn't do enough to keep up with technology. This could be an issue for me in Australia. We are as scared of change as America but without nearly as much science and research going on in the background.

quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:
quote:
Originally posted by possenier:
I give up.
You can show a horse kool-aid,
But you can't force it to drink.

eat the pie . . .

There are times I agree with you Alaskan and times I don't but I can't figure out if you lack the critical thinking skills to engage in a discussion or debate about something or if you think you are superior to others. Are you afraid to show people your thought process or is it just non existent?

Most discussions including the climate change debate have pros and cons to both arguments and a rational person looks at the pros and cons of each side. You seem to always be on the extreme ends of an argument without showing any understanding of the counter argument. Personally I think if you can't understand the other side of an argument you probably aren't in a position to debate something.

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outsiderbmx
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Member # 9020

 - posted 06-18-2017 04:03 AM      Profile for outsiderbmx   Author's Homepage   Email outsiderbmx         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by black_labb:

In my opinion climate change debates (along with a lot of political topics) are too polarised to achieve anything productive



[ 06-18-2017, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: outsiderbmx ]

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kineticbmx
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Member # 8713

 - posted 06-18-2017 08:20 PM      Profile for kineticbmx   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alaskan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Origins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown#Deaths_in_Jonestown

Enjoy your literal death cult/self-immolation and all its effects on freedom/peace...

Pie eater was pointing to the fact that all you do is post a bunch of random, opinionated, aligned news (really reliable) and wikipedia (even more reliable) links in the hope they pass as valid references for the argument you're pushing.

There is a reason that universities refuse to accept Wikipedia and news outlets as valid references on academic papers.

If you can't dazzle them with truth, baffle them with bullshit!

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ne'er do well
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 - posted 06-18-2017 09:25 PM      Profile for ne'er do well           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have given up on the debate, I'm only interested in affecting my own sphere. Spent a good part of this evening discussing with an old farmer what is happening. Nothing I can do to change it, so nothing to get too worked up about.

Though I did spend saturday morning dragging trash out of the river, so I get to feel better about that, right?

[ 06-18-2017, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: ne'er do well ]

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scott63
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 - posted 06-18-2017 11:24 PM      Profile for scott63   Email scott63         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
120 degrees in Phoenix tomorrow.
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metal mulisha
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 - posted 06-20-2017 11:27 PM      Profile for metal mulisha   Email metal mulisha         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
black_labb, I've long appreciated your presence on the board, and your post in this thread is a fine example of why.

Adding to your point of decentralizing power generation (with my uneducated perspective): on top of needing massive transmission lines for new wind and solar fields, transmission losses have always been a bummer.

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black_labb
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 - posted 06-21-2017 10:16 AM      Profile for black_labb   Author's Homepage   Email black_labb         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha:
black_labb, I've long appreciated your presence on the board, and your post in this thread is a fine example of why.

Adding to your point of decentralizing power generation (with my uneducated perspective): on top of needing massive transmission lines for new wind and solar fields, transmission losses have always been a bummer.

Thanks

One of the reasons for huge solar fields/wind farms is that they centralise things making them easier to manage with traditional business models and have one "seller" providing the power. Having decentralised power generation may complicate some aspects of the running of the businesses but it does have it's own positive elements like the simplified transmissions.

I didn't address it enough in my first response but people often ignore the investment costs with things at this scale. If someone built a coal fired power plant 10 years ago with a 30 year life expectancy and you want to close it tomorrow you've spent probably 90% of it's total costs and only have made 33% of the power it was intended to produce. By Shutting it early you are essentially wasting 60% of the total cost up to that point. Firstly that pisses off investors as they lose value. Secondly building that power plant wasn't just expensive it was detrimental to the environment. All that Steel, concrete, equipment, cleared land etc that is needed to build the plant has an environmental impact that could be justified for a 30 year life really isn't justifiable for a short period of time.

So by closing your coal fired power plant early you are wasting a huge chunk of the money used to build the place. Then you go an build a "green" powerplant that collects energy from lets say fairies wands as they pass by. The research and building cost, energy and environmental impact for making this magic fairy power generator is roughly the same if not more than building the coal powered power plant but the running doesn't create emissions. Assume the same 30 year life. With this scenario we wasting 60% of the total cost of the coal fired power plant and then building a whole new power plant. Ultimately you end up using a huge amount of money, energy and natural resources building something that doesn't deplete natural resources and calling it green.

If you are smart you keep that coal fired power station open and put your money into researching the fairy power. Build the fairy powerplant when there isn't much life left in the coal fired plant so it doesn't go to waste. At this point you've been doing research so building it will be cheaper and more efficient. You don't waste nearly as much money and you've

Currently too many play politics and make symbolic decisions. They close the coal powerplant prematurely and build the fairy magic power claiming fairy power will be cleaner but really you end up with higher environmental impact when you look at the whole impact. Or Governments invest the money in coal to show that they will stand up against those "lefties that don't know how the world really works" when they should be putting their money in the future instead.

It's kind of like replacing roads with a network of tunnels that people/cargo capsules travel in. It would be silly to just start destroying the roads immediately, you need to give the community a transition plan so they don't buy a new car that becomes obsolete the next week and the car manufacturers don't keep designing and building cars beyond when they are useful. Right now things are too polarised and no one wants to buy a new car as they might be obsolete soon but also no one wants to build the capsules or tubes as the car enthusiasts might get their way and the roads stay longer than planned.

All these agreements are in place to try and sort out a plan for how the world will transition to cleaner energy in the future so that you can decide if you want to buy a new car or maintain the one you have now and invest some money in a capsule start up company so you can have a capsule once they become available.

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alaskan
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 - posted 06-21-2017 01:48 PM      Profile for alaskan   Author's Homepage   Email alaskan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*calm, soothing words*
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